Ken
Thank you for pointing out these numbers. Can you direct me to the 2009 source of the numbers your are quoting - report and page number? I am wondering on whether you are looking at the difference between the core capacity and the classroom capacity. Obviously the classroom capacity would be less than the core and you can only put so many desks in a room. From what I understand, the classroom capacity is determined by the state as a minimum number of sq ft per student. This is how they determined that number and from what I understand, the capacity was laid out in the capacity report some time ago.

I grew up in brookline ma. we had population of about 70,000 we had 6 schools at that time, 5 schools for a town of 15000 is outrages. we need to consolidate our school system it will save money in the long run and a k-8 system has proven to be less confusing and more productive for our children, not to mention far more cost effective.
As the pro builders have stated bonds are cheap now and eventually get paid off. more union school employees cost more money every year and never go away. myself or my family will not support anymore 2 grade merry go rounds that only seem to be in the interest of the sau and confuse and disrupt our children.
Lets see some realistic options.

@wm

Can't say I don't agree with the K-8 suggestion as it is the most operationally efficient way to do thing. That said, without consideration for interest, that's somewhere around a 320,000 sf. building and $65M. Certainly could be justified from an ROI. Other issue is where do you put it? Think HS times 2.

Also for reference (per 2010 census), Brookline has 58K people and 6,600 kids in their system. 11%. They have 9 K-8 feeder schools into 1 High School. Windham has 13.5K people and 2,770 kids in our system. 21%. If they had the same ratio of school aged kids they'd have 11,800 in their system and probably 17 or 18 schools. Just saying.

The School Board report that shows our schools have a capacity of 2,840 students is the 2009_Oct_Facilities_Presentation. The information regarding capacities is on page 16. It does not refer to core space, it refers to capacities.

The only number that is not shown in the chart on page 16 of this report is the capacity of the High School, which is 1,000 students. I added that figure into the 2009 numbers so that I could compare apples to apples -- as the School Board's recent statements that our schools in 2011/2012/2013 only have a capacity of 2,098 students includes the 1,000 students for the High School.

@Ken,

Do you actually understand what Core space is? It's a shared space that larger volumes of kids can use as part of their curriculum. When you use the Core space for what it was designed to be used for you can have a larger student capacity since some kids are in their Classroom while others are using the Core space for Art, Music, Gym, whatever. Theoretically, at GBS if you use the Art and Music room for their designed purposed you could have "Student Capacity" of 540 (per the Facilities Committee report). Basically, 20 different kids can sit in those seats 30 periods a week.

However, when you take make those rooms a Classroom, that room is only used by those 20 or so kids. Do the math out on every Core space that's available in the school and apply that last statement to it since we've taken all the Core and turned them into classrooms. Thus a student capacity of 306 in the main GBS building.

GBS has 750 kids there. 173 in the K so that's fine. That leaves 577 kids. 160 are in the portables leaving 417 kids in the space for 306 kids...remember the Core is converted to class room space.

Do this same thing at WCS and WMS and you're realize the actual situation we're in.

Further to play your game, did you know that GBS has a capacity of 1,192 kids?

g.i.s. I stated when i attended baker and lynch was not there and lincoln had been closed and as most new england town it has shrunk since the seventies if you think the addition of the new schools has made a difference check the s.a.t.'s

Grass: I'm not playing any games. Answer this question... How many classrooms are there at Golden Brook School?

Not counting K. 17 Classrooms at GBS, and 10 Room portable where 6 are used for Classroom purposes (I believe).

@GrassisGreener,

So if WMS has a core of 700 and educational space for less, I believe you will find that according to the study that evaluated core vs educational space, they need approximately 15 classrooms. True?

@Jay,

I'd say no but the entire Elementary system (GBS, WCS & WMS) needs that amount. I believe it's been stated over and over that we need an additional 17 teachers. That's why you do this to impact everything else down stream.

Seriously, do what I suggested on the other thread. School Board grows some cajones and restores all Specialty rooms to their rightful purpose and stuffs all of the kids in the Education space we have.

GBS...17 Classrooms + 6 from the Portables = 577 kids there not counting K = 25 kids per class. Not if, when, the Portable fail = 34 kids per class

WCS...22 Classrooms = 619 kids = 28 per class

WMS...19 Classrooms = 644 kids = 34 per class

@Grass,

I think what Jay was specifying is that the 'core space' is present at WMS according to previous studies for the existing population and the classroom space is needed for educational needs. So it is hard to look at/understand why we can build 'classrooms' for relatively little money of the kindergarten (which individually the rooms have to be larger per state law/requirements) and not do something similar to the WMS to bring the educational space up to the shared/core space requirements. When you talk about 'returning core space'...please remember per state building requirements class room is a classroom regardless if it is art/music/math/etc. Labs would be "new" so there is no "returning them". This would meet another objective that has never existed in this town. An approved middle school.

@Grassisgreener,

"do this" - build a new school? What I find funny is that a school board candidate from last year, that was on the building committee was so much in favor of doing the additions to the existing schools. This made sense to this person and she wrote and wrote about all this - core space, overcrowding, saving money with additions...since it made sense and did not incur the wasted spending of the new middle school. This same person has now flip flopped in a recent blog entry.

There are clearly those that just want to build and get something in place for their children in a 'few years'. There are others that want to do what is right and not have a long standing bump in the town school taxes forever.

@soc,

The additions and the masters facility plan just made sense to me as it allowed the expansion to align the "core" and the "education" space disparity across the existing buildings. That is what was being promoted. It also allowed the growth to be initiated over a period of time so all this data that is just 'theory' can be reviewed. Salem is looking at closing elementary schools!

@Jay - I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but wanted to let you know I responded to your comment about me (What I find funny is that a school board candidate from last year, that was on the building committee was so much in favor of doing the additions to the existing schools....) If you care to reply, please do so on my blog entry entitled Why I Support a New 7/8 School in Windham. Thanks,

@GrassIsGreener,

I was just reading that the actual classroom count in WMS is 31 and we have over 40 teachers working in the building. So I'd disagree with your math of:

644 students / 19 classrooms.

Shouldn't it be 644 students / 31 classrooms and 644 students / 40 teachers. The ratios are quite different. Why are we portraying that there will be 34 students per classroom at the WMS it really is an outright lie!

Thank you Heather! I saw it and responded.

@Jay,

Reread and comprehend what I was suggesting in that hypothetical example. The only reason you have 31 Classrooms is because you've turned all of the Specialty Rooms into Educational Rooms.

Since you're not much into hypothetical examples, please tell me how this is a good learning environment for the kids in the Windham Schools:

* Using 1/2 the Media Center as a Classroom
* Eliminated Math Success
* All Unified Arts at GBS and WCS are on carts
* 6th and 7th Spanish is on a cart
* 6th, 7th and 8th French is on a cart
* Health is on a cart
* Art is on a cart
* Music Appreciation is on a cart
* Integrated Language Skills is on a cart
* 6th Spanish will be on a cart next year

Yes, we have ample space in our Schools to provide a 21st Century curriculum (sarcasm).

Harry,
Can you tell me how you think the school board has been wasteful?

Kevin

Mark
Have you looked at the proposed budget for the new school and your tax impact?

Everyone is cutting back? Who is everyone? Perhaps we should cut back on salt for our roads, or plowing, maybe close the public library, or cut a police officer or fireman position (low crime and emergencies). It sounds like a better idea would be to cut funding to the school system to keep up with the growth of the community. Yes, that makes complete sense, well since EVERYONE is doing it.

Kevin,
Yes I have looked at the proposed budget and the tax impact, just as I do every year, I have also seen how much my taxes have gone up over recent years and how the local school portion of that is the reason for the growth in taxation.

I hope everyone reads the proposed budget and makes an informed decision on how they will vote, it's not like we're Democratic members of congress voting for Obamacare.

Resident - I'm glad you obviously have more disposable income than in previous years, but the majority of residents of Windham aren't like that, if they have been fortunate enough to keep a job their salaries are still down in real terms and they have less income due to increased taxation.

The town has been fiscally responsible the past few years and I applaud them for that, I think that is a major part of why the town warrant articles typically pass while the school ones are voted down.

Mark,
Disposable income……what is that? We are a pay check to pay check family. I am willing to sacrifice things in my life for an increase for a better educational opportunity for my children.

Mark
I agree. I hope everyone does read and get educated before voting.

Maybe we need to hire a school superintendant instead of a sau rep.
and don't forget to watch out for the midnight vote.

@Ken,

Have you heard figures on the operating costs of a 5th school. That would seem to be where the tax impact really is.

@Kevin and @Jay,

Grass and myself are going over operational costs in another forum(still in flux) Personally I believe the tax impact is about 2x of what is being told to us by the SB. I'll let him reply but believe he is settling in somewhere in between there 1M and my 2M. This does not include the 17 new teachers required district wide as stated in a previous SB meeting necessary to bring down the student:teacher rations between now and projected 2016 (? on the date). The bottom line is the tax impact for the *building* is less significant than the operational/personnel costs. Especially if evaluated over the life of boding (20 years).

Jane
Taj Mahal? Can I ask you what is the average cost of building a new school? If you do not know that then how can you rate something as a Taj Mahal? Also, there is no track included in the proposal.

Perhaps it is time for scores of people to move out of Windham and into a town that is not growing. Time for the old timers to move out, pretty sure the generation who has young children care if the facilites in the town can handle the next 20 years.

Resident, you want to force the "old timers" out of the town?, I think that's the first time one of the spend spend spend crowd has actually had the balls to come out and say that. In case you hadn't noticed Windham is not growing as much as you think, new housing development has been pretty stagnant for the past 4 or 5 years. People's incomes aren't growing either and increases in grocery bills, fuel costs, and taxes have left most people worse off.

P.S. I am not an old timer, I have young children who will be entering our school system, and I am opposed to the proposed new school.

Mark,
Glad to hear you are not an old timer. Also, I couldn’t be further from the spend spend spend crowd, I am a solid conservative through and through, except when it comes to education. New housing development does not equate to a “growing town.” I am the perfect example of that having moved into this town. When I move into a house that had 2 retirees and no children left in the school system moving out with my family of 4 and probably another one and will have children in the school system for the next 20 years, that is a +3 for the town growth.
I am sad to hear that you will want your children attending a school that is overcrowded (fact, not opinion) or in portables (imagine your work environment in a portable). I can completely understand residents who have nothing to do with the school system anymore questioning the decision to build a new structure, however at the same time, also fact, a new structure increases the value of housing.
Excellent point on grocery bills and fuel costs; perhaps individuals could eliminate their iPhone or cable service, or maybe they are living in the wrong town if taxes are a problem. We knew what we were signing up for when we moved here. No one is preventing anyone from leaving.
As I said before, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

@Resident I can certainly see why you do not use a real name.......

Mark:
How has new builds in Windham been stagnant? See below:
Windham Single-family new house construction building permits:
2002: 89 buildings, average cost: $230,300
2004: 93 buildings, average cost: $262,800
2005: 128 buildings, average cost: $288,200
2006: 74 buildings, average cost: $293,800
2007: 61 buildings, average cost: $243,100
2008: 50 buildings, average cost: $365,300
2009: 33 buildings, average cost: $419,900
2010: 77 buildings, average cost: $447,100

Think about this: Home values are $205,000 higher, on average, in neighborhoods with high-scoring public schools versus schools with low scores (Brookings Institute: April 19, 2012)

National Association of Realtors spokesman Walter Molony said: “Homes in good school districts sell faster and at higher prices,“ Parents with school-age children are willing to pay a premium for housing that gives their children access to superior schools.

Want your homes to increase in value? Improve education.

What are you going to do when the student teacher ratio climbs to 1:30 or 1:40? Build a school then? It will more expensive. The cost to borrow money is low.

Do I want more taxes? No and I bet no one else does but there is a responsibilty we have as a community to provide our children good schools.

By the way, your taxes for capital improvement will not exceed the highest point they were a year ago with the new school.

@Kevin, but ongoing operational costs will certainly be exceeded. And after the hogh school ran over budget how are we to trust that this wont run over budget too? The answer from Andersen is simple WHEN they run over budget not IF!

Resident - your situation may have resulted in a +3 to school attendance but that doesn't mean that is always the case, two houses on my street changed hands in the last 6 months with no net change in the school enrollment.

Do I want my children taught in the best public school in the country? of course, but everything comes with tradeoffs, and I recognize that whatever we spend it is never enough - to use a car analogy, we may have a BMW of school districts while our neighbors are comparable to Ford or Honda, but now we say that isn't good enough we want a Porsche, and after we get that we will want to upgrade to a Ferrari or Rolls Royce instead.

It's a free country, if you want a Ferrari or Rolls Royce go ahead and get one, just don't expect everyone in town to help you pay for it.

Kevin,
Thank you for posting the numbers for new home build permits that shows the exponential growth in Windham's building of single family homes. When I read Mark's comment, "new housing development has been pretty stagnant for the past 4 or 5 years" I was wondering what he was basing that on. Reviewing the data you presented, it appears his comment was more of an opinion statement versus one based on facts.

Thanks for providing those numbers Kevin.

I said growth was stagnant, the numbers back up my claim - the 5 years from 2006 when the housing crash started until 2010 show steady decline in new builds and an average of only 59 new builds a year.

As on the 2010 census there were 4,724 households in Windham so that new build number represents growth of just 1.25% per year - to me that is stagnant.

Compare that 1.25% a year growth in the town to the growth in the local school portion of our tax bill.

2006 - 9.26
2007 - 9.98 = 7.8% increase
2008 - 11.41 = 14.3% increase
2009 - 12.46 = 9.2% increase
2010 - 14.42 = 15.7% increase
2011 - 15.77 = 9.3% increase

Do you see the massive disparity in the increases in the local school tax rate compared to the growth in households..... households up 6.25% over 5 years, school taxes up 70.3% over 5 years.

Mark,

Can you attempt to explain where the 125 kids new to the system last year came from then? Did they morph from Canobie or Cobbett's Pond? Building is one aspect. Transfers are another thing. I think the +3 scenario the Resident suggested is a whole lot more frequent than you think. BTW...thank your neighbors!

Grass:

The size of the graduating class last year was unusually small -- that is reason for the jump in this year's student enrollment. I believe the 2011/12 12th grade had around 125 students and the first grade was around 240.

2012/13 Kindergarten = 173
2012/13 First grade = 240
2012/13 12th Grade = 173

The numbers for the lower grades are projected to go down in 2013/14...

2013/14 Kindergarten (projected) = ~130
2013/14 First grade = (projected ~200

@Ken

Share your source of data since it's so much more accurate than what others have used. If you think we're losing 80 kids compared to last year I'd love to see the data.

Also, to ensure you're accurate with your statement "unusually small 12th Grade". 181 - 129 = 52 kids.

Where did the other 73 come from then? Did those morph out of Cobbett's or Canobie?

Grass: I did not say that we would lose 80 kids next year. I stated the projected numbers for Kindergarten and first grades. The other grades will have adjustments as well, some up, some down. This is normal.

Ken,

Maybe you don't know this. But Bedford build a middle school and highschool ATTACHED/same complex for the same price as our beloved WHS. At the same period of time. We went through overruns and operating costs increases that were never exposed during the deliberation of our $35M building...that turned into $50+M. Why should I be suspect of a new WMS that was thrown together against the recommendation of the building committee? I don't know...

PS Bedford has a turf field and track too!

Henry--You always post about this guy. Love Rhee's method's BTW. Send him a message let him know it's out there. Did he apply?

And the the high school was over budget too boot....So not exactly like it is the kind of experience we are looking to have or have again.

Jane
How does this compare to the proposed middle school? They are not proposing something that is $70M nor are they proposing something around $51M. The proposed school is $29M. We are not building anyting that is out of line from the average: Average Construction Cost for Elementary, Middle and High Schools in 2010. According to School Planning and Management's(SP&M) School Construction Report, the national median costs for school construction in 2010 were as follows:
Middle school SP&M - Cost/ sqft: $215.14, Cost/Student $29,959, Total cost: $30,000,000 (936 students)
High school SP&M - Cost/ sqft: $188.68, Cost/Student $30,833, Total cost: $54,900,000 (1600 students) 2011 Annual School Construction Report , School Planning and Managementhttp://www.peterli.com/spm/pdfs/SchoolConstructionReport2011.pdf)

Also, for FY2010-2011, the average cost per student at windham HS is 13K whereas the state average is $12.7K. Not out of line.

You might also want to look at the following report:
Achievement gains are most robust for elementary students who escaped severe overcrowding by moving to a new elementary school. Relative rate of learning for the average student enjoyed achievement gains equivalent to about 65 days of additional instruction per year. - “New Schools, Overcrowding Relief, and Achievement gains in Los Angeles” - University of California Berkeley – Aug 2012

65 more days of instruction each yr is being cost effective with our tax dollars.

Jane,
I haven't read anywhere that anyone is suggesting to build the new 7/8 school due to "age or luxury quotient" issues. The new build is needed due to over crowding. Teacher to student ratios impact the students as well as the teachers. If you happen to teach in a public school, I bet you are well aware of that.

@Kevin,

First it wasn't $51M to start...it ended up there. Second this was at a time when the state funded/paid for 30% of our costs. This "luxury" is no longer there.

I don' want your name, but I can certainly se why you would not want the opion your espousing attached to your name; I would not be very proud of it either.

"They reduced what was going to be in the High School to control the spending." Another way of looking at this act would could be termed bait and switch. Meaning the voters approved one thing then they changed it.

"should be faster" +I would expect that the operating costs of some of the schools would decrease." Those are assumptions affected in no small part by the labor contracts. Labor force increases are easy enough but shinking the force for reduced demand will unquestioinably be met with resistence; it always has. I am highly skeptical that these "impressions and "understandings" you have will ever be the case.

@Ken,

You're kidding me. I would do more research if that is the data that you have.

@Ken,

You're kidding me. I would do more research if that is the data that you have.

@Jane
As a teacher, are you telling me that you can give the same level of education to every student not matter if you have 40 students in a class or 20 students. As a former college professor, I can tell you that is not the case. As the number of students increase the amount of time I can spend with each student decreases. This is indepedent on the curriculum, the teacher and the administration. This was also shown in the LA report I quoted above.
What source are you quoting regarding the three dimes? Show me the studies that demonstrate what you are talking about? Show me what studies are out there that states that increasing the number of students in each classroom is beneficial to the students. That student excel when they get less time with the teacher.

@Jane--

"It means schools with good curriculum content, teachers who know the subject matter, and proper administration."

Did you actually read this and as an Educator come away with the impression that "This looks great like a great curriculum?"

http://www.windhamsd.org/WSD%20Capacity%20Report%202012-2016%209-12-12.pdf

"don’t let the door hit you on the way out." --Resident (from above)

Make sure you stick around long enough to vote; those of us who have to stay becuase we are up-side-down need your vote.

@TonyM..

This is probably my route in the future if the new building passes and sell to a family with only 4+ kids in the family on the way out! They will pay about $10k 'into the system' and 'cost the system' $64k annually

@ Ken "You missed my point. Take the 3rd graders out of Golden Brook will reduce Golden Brooks operating expense." -- No your missing mine; taking the 3rd graders out of Golden Brook School COULD ALLOW THEM to reduce the operating expense. We both know they wont reduce anything but yet come up with reasoning that the current funding with less students is what we have to have.

The local school portion of the property tax went up 70% in the 5 years from 2006-2011, did the value of our houses rise by 70% in the same time?

Charlie
Are you telling me that someone moving into a town and staying 12 years to put their kids through school is not going to pay their fair share? Living in a town for 12 years provides lack of community? Do you really believe that? The alternative is to have your home value decrease due to poor education that no one wants. Then try to sell your house.

@Mark you inverted your numbers. $15.74/$11.54 is a 36% increase. We built a new school, staffed it and went through one of the worst recessions in history. Here's a useless stat to make a point....Recession doesn't happen and Windham's historic 9% valuation increase YoY continues we pay less local tax today than in 2006. Keep pushing this down the road and we'll be just like Pelham..."What do you mean it will cost us 250% more than in 2005?!" "Wait, my tax rate is more than Windham's? Really, what do I have to show for it?"

@Kevin,

How did you arrive at 12 years?

@Kevin, you bet that is what I am saying. If the family has just 1 child and has a home at the median value in Windham of $344,100 they pay roughly $8000 a year in taxes; not all of wich is even for the school system. It costs roughly $12000 a year per child in our school system. That is roughly a ($4000) dollar a year shortage with just 1 child and if the family has 2 childeren there are no more taxes but costs go up another $12,000 per child for a total of a ($16,000) shortage per year. How are you seeing the math?

Median hiome price source:
http://www.trulia.com/real_estate/Windham-New_Hampshire/

Average estimated cost per student per year from the Windham School board
http://windham.patch.com/articles/letter-wsb-addresses-cost-per-student

@Charlie,

"It costs roughly $12000 a year per child in our school system...." Actually it is more than that. It costs about $16k per child on average, heavily weighted towards the new WHS student (divide budget by the number of students). Please remember the numbers that the state publish do not include the 'state taxes' and some of the costs associated with the district. Last time I compared my tax bill, house value and the amount that I paid in taxes...it included the state portion of the bill

@ SOC I know.....but I wanted to use the school board numbers as even their math shows @Ken's statements absolutely false.

The truth of the matter is that nothing the school board has ever said has come in on or under budget with the features that were promised and there always costs they never disclose.

you just have to look at our neighbor to the north that towns a revolving door with great school system, high taxes and cheap, cheap houses .
why didn't you move there?

Kevin, you know as well as I do that the median house price for sales is not the same as the value of your house. All that tells me is the market really sucked two years ago and improved for high-end homes in the same period last year,

I have shown you using your own numbers and the town's tax rate that between 2006 and 2011 the school tax rate has gone up 70% while the number of households in the town has gone up 6.25%.

In that same timeframe the valuation of my house (for mortgage valuation purposes) has dropped about 20%, and I consider myself fortunate that is all it dropped.

I didn't buy to flip, I bought because this is where I want to live. I am dealing with a mortgage that is high because at the time the value was right and I entered into a contract, and when I give my word I stand by it.

Do you really think the value of homes in Windham has gone up in the last 5 years?: and do you think it has gone up enough to justify a 70% increases in local school property tax rate?

Mark
If you do not invest in your community, the house values will not go up because people will not want to send their kids to an overcrowded school. Are you going to complain when the bonds are paid off and the taxes are lower but now we have good schools and your house value will increase?

Kevin, so population supposedly "surged" 26.9% between 2000 and 2010, yet your earlier figures also showed only a 6;25% increase in households between 2006 and 2010. In that same 5 year span local school taxes (=budget) went up 70%.

How can you justify that? how can you argue it (excessive/disproportionate school spending) is all because of population growth?

So the source that you are quoting is a flyer? Now that is very credible.

@Mark
You do not need new builds to have an expanding town. The new builds shows an increase in home values (close to 100% from 2002-2011). Also From the 2011 census:
Windham, Pelham and Sandown led the region's population boom, U.S. Census figures released last week show. Population surged 6.4 percent from 2000 to 2010 in Rockingham County.

Windham grew the most, at 26.9 percent, with Sandown up 16.4 percent. Pelham, across the county line in neighboring Hillsborough County, grew 18.2 percent. Derry was the big loser in the region, dropping 2.7 percent.

@Kevin, you apparently missed the point that the 'flyer' came from the HIGH SCHOOL PROPONENTS who sent it out to the voters to get them to vote YES...

You also can't admit they LIED about the cost.. they even later admitted that. But this is why people said they voted for the school... they didn't think it would cost them so dearly. They are very angry now. So please, spare me your dissing of the flyer.. it's legitimate and VERY credible.

Plus I doubt you even looked at it. It was a mailer, on a postcard from the proponents.

Jane
So you are comparing a flyer (yes I did read it) at another school district to the situation here. No one here said it woudl cost us three dimes. I think your connection is a stretch.
As for overcrowding, it is an excuse for what? Windham is at the bottom in the student to teacher ratios within NH. Within the school, they setup mini classrooms in the hallways and stairwells because they do not have enough room (fire dept has asked them to stop). The middle school is not an approved middle school because of the lack of labs and tech ed. The labs are done on a hot plate with 8 kids watching a demonstration. In the next several years as the larger class sizes move up through the grades, the student teacher ratio in some of the classes will reach 1:40. If overcrowding is just an excuse, show me the studies that say that overcrowding is not an issue. Otherwise, you are just speaking from the hip with no credible evidence of what you are saying.

@Jane

And I'm really sure that Bedford is so pissed at the results that people are planning a mass exodus right? You get what you invest. Seriously, we CANNOT have an actual Middle School (despite it's name) without making significant investments.

Again, this does not apply here. No one here is saying 3 dimes. I do not care what happened in Bedford. We are in Windham. I lose? How old are you?

Yes they are being taken into consideration. The school board will be presenting operating expense numbers.

Where are you getting your data for the number of people that left for private school? Again, shooting from the hip.

Regarding the hot plate demonstration and not real labs comment. I would have expected, as an educator, you would recognize that deficiencies at one grade puts the students back at the higher grades. This then requires the teachers at the upper grades to step backwards to bring them up to speed before moving forward. I would also have expected that, as an educator, you would find this very inefficient and costs us more money. You stated above something about a good curriculum, with the lack of facilities, we do not have that.

Kevin, I agree. In addition to setting the students back, affecting them in the high school, it also impacts certain standardized tests. During the tests students are expected to perform similar types of lab steps. With our student experiences being based primarily on "watching" the teacher do the lab experiments, knowledge-transfer has to be affected. Most people have better retention and recall from something they have done themselves.

RE: labs - people are making it sound like these have existed and have been taken away. Where I would agree when we build new space in a building they should include labs. People should realize that *without* physical labs, children in Windham have performed very well at all levels. In fact in WHS they have resources NOT available in any other NH school district. Last, WMS may not be an "approved middle school" but other high performing students in other towns come from approved 'upper elementary schools'. So to me this is pure FUD with other underlying reasons for poor performance

@Jane...But their enrollments have stayed about the same and results are up. I'm sure they're proud.

Also, sorry I have to do this but in the spirit of "taxes". Here's what Google turned up about you (see bottom). Nothing wrong at all but what you're saying makes more sense now.

This is not a bash on teachers BTW. Love em, Mom's one, etc. As a "Tea Party" co-founder, if 25% of Windham's costs are directly attributable to Teacher Benefits (Yes, it's $11M and rising) shouldn't you be pushing for major education reform to abolish collective bargaining and Teacher's Union's in NH? Shift things to a merit-based system based on student results, allow School Choice/Vouchers and expand Charter Schools? As Henry up above mentioned, I love Michelle Rhee's approach and someone with her principles would serve every School District in America well. Her organization (www.studentsfirst.org). NH gets an F when it comes to these things.

You are throwing out a lot of FUD to voters on this thread but sometimes if you look in the mirror you realize what the problem really is.

A teacher of 35 years, Aitken has been involved in the original tea party movement since 2007. She co-founded the NH Tea Party Coalition with another original tea party member in 2009. Aitken is also on the Board of Directors of the Coalition of NH Taxpayers, one of NHTPC's supporting groups. Please note that this endorsement is a personal one, as neither Coalition endorses candidates.

well if you plan to leave, you better leave now if that tax rate reaches 25 per.you will have to give away your house, that's a New Hampshire guarantee.

who pays thier pension fund!, and you would be hard pressed to find a private sector job the pays any benefits never mind a pension fund for the hours they work.

I'm not sure who you are referring to, but I know I paid into my pension fund for 35 years. I had to, it was all I had a choice to do. And yes, private sector companies do offer pension funds -- you'd be a fool to think you could live off of SS alone, so people are wise to invest in private pensions.

Jane,
Lets just say I do the taxes for a teacher or two and have worked my entire life with my first real job starting in the 8th grade. Part but no less than 20 hours a week and 50 during non-school periods of the year. The problem with the public pension plans are the terms/backing of those plans and in the private sector they are essentially non-existent as 401k and other plans have replaced them. What you paid IN as a teacher and what the 'employer' (state/town/city) depending on where you are...are not enough to BACK the terms of 'X% of the highest 3 years, etc'. For the cases that I know, the individual (and if there was a company match - the employer) would have to accumulate a million dollars + in their 401k to have the equivalent of the pension payment of the teachers I know. This would last them about 18-20 years and they would have no other benefits (medical, dental, vision) other than what is government provided...or continue to work "some job for benefits".

This is NOT a slight on teachers, but the reality of the system as I say teaching has a back end monetary reward. Hopefully the 35 years actually teaching were as rewarding for you.

Last, the reference to hiring teachers is that if they open a NEW school along with that is the appropriate staffing for the school that can not be shared. This includes teachers and administrators that have pensions.

I call it, NO VENDOR LEFT BEHIND. Dumb taxpayers keep funneling money to the schools so they can hire more administrators and pay vendors to do what they were hired to do.

The curriculum was chosen for you. It's horrible yet who is accountable? Math curriculum is chosen based on the STate Standards which were FUZZY. That's why you have lousy/fuzzy math curriculum in your classroom. Did anyone mention this to Lynch when he was getting the HIGH approval ratings? NOPE.
Now your curriculum will be chosen for you based on Common Core Standards. Oh and by the way, you will be a facilitator now, not a teacher. You can take a seat and start babysitting those kids while they teach each other in groups and watch computer screens. I call this the GOAL of making teachers obsolete. YOu can send a thank you note to Bill Gates for that one. He is the $$ behind Common Core and the one who thinks a computer can do a better job than a teacher.
WHat's funny is, teachers have NO idea what the feds are doing to them right now. They have NO idea that Gates bought and paid the Union off. The leadership stabbed the teachers in the back and now he's about to screw the kids too with this nonsense of turning teachers into facilitators.
How long do you think taxpayers will fund facilitators? Do you think they will pay them top wages to sit there and watch group learning?

Tony,

With all due respect if you're paying $50K in taxes then your home is assessed at ~$2.2M. So you've done pretty well for yourself and somewhere a long time ago people made investments to educate you and give you the opportunity to be wildly successful. Secondly, there's no pity party here for you really. You made the choice to build a $2.2M home when you could easily live in a $400 or $500K home no? When you have the kind of money you have the more ways to reduce your tax burden the better. See Warren Buffet paying 17% of his income in tax when his secretary is paying 35%.

And who cares that other towns student populations are declining. Ours isn't. We added 125 kids last year. People move here for many reasons and one of those being our schools.

This is an era of inclusion and you can't just boot the special Ed kids out. You are right there is a significant cost of providing those service. Quite insensitive to the nearly 400 kids and families that have IEP's to help them. And you're spot on with the Commercial suggestion as well. But there's a balance between too much Commercial and maintaining the character of our town. So do you want to be Salem with a $20.58 tax rate or who we are with a $23.05 tax rate? Or Pelham with a $24.40 tax rate?

This is NH and we all chose to live here. We accept that our Property Taxes are higher than most but we also don't pay Sales and in many cases Income Tax.

The size of the graduating class last year was unusually small -- that is reason for the jump in this year's student enrollment. I believe the 2011/12 12th grade had around 125 students and the first grade was around 240.

2012/13 Kindergarten = 173
2012/13 First grade = 240

2013/14 Kindergarten (projected) = ~130
2013/14 First grade = (projected ~200

@Ken

Where's the source of your data? If you think we're dropping 40 Kids from K and 40 from 1st next year I'm not sure you really know the town that you live in.

Ken,
I hope you will be confirming your projected K and first grade enrollments with GBS. I was there last week registering my child for first and they specifically said they have not seen a decline in enrollment.

There are a certain number currently enrolled in first grade because they attended GBS for Kindergarten and have been counted. That number doesn't include incoming first graders who attend private, full-day K elsewhere. Those students were just notified a week ago that registration for first grade is now open. In addition, new families who move to the area and register over the summer also affects those numbers.

If taxes go UP, the price of the home must fall. People have to afford to buy the houses.

@Ted

"If taxes go UP, the price of the home must fall. People have to afford to buy the houses."

This one doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. For giggles, say this increases our tax rate by $5 / $1,000. The average listing price of a home in Windham right now is $448K.

So $448 x $5 = $2,240 or $186 a month. You really think the average person that's looking to buy a home in the range is going to sweat $186 a month?

@Grass,

His point is that *if* a person is financing a house, they have to meet bank requirements for monthly payment, waiving escrow, PMI. Personally with all the banking changes I have no problem meeting these limits...but even in my case, you would think I was buying the proposed middle school for the scrutiny that you go through. Almost makes you long for the days of 9% mortgage interest and sitting with the local bank president and their lawyer at the lawyers kitchen signing paperwork for our Windham house!

One thing to consider is the affect of the type of housing being built in Windham and the current 'family makeup'. Where 3-4 children/family were 'norm' and '5-6' unusual years ago the lifestyle (work, financial, etc) has changed that landscape quite a bit. Please don't do a lineal projection of school population based on housing units....especially high priced housing units.

@Jane,

Come on you can at least find something from 2010. Many attempt to bash here because of her methods to abolish tenure, implement stringent accountability systems and rid our School systems of under performing teachers. Try this as it's a balanced review of the 'case against Rhee'. I believe she took the DC post in 2007.

http://educationnext.org/the-case-against-michelle-rhee/

I don't understand why someone would come in, spread negative commentary, and not even be a Windham resident with a vote in any of this! Enough already.