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Group Aims to Educate Voters About Need for New Middle School and Athletic Field

The non-profit group was recently organized and is chaired by three residents.

 

Concerned with overcrowding in three of the town’s schools, a new organization has emerged to educate residents about the importance of voting yes on a warrant that supports a new middle school and athletic field for the high school.

The non-profit group called WINS – Windham Initiative for a New School – is chaired by Michelle Saklad, Kevin Lefebvre and Attessa Bradley.

Currently grade three is split between Golden Brook Elementary School and Windham Center School and the middle school is not up to state standards, Saklad said.

“Right now, there is no science lab or tech education at the middle school,” she said.

The new proposed middle school would house grades seven and eight and be located on London Bridge Road, on land already owned by the school district. Currently, the old middle school on Lowell Road has grades six, seven and eight.

If the new middle school is approved, the older one will house grades four, five and six. Golden Brook would house kindergarten through grade two and Center School would house grades three and four.

“This is fiscally responsible,” said Saklad, a parent of four children in the school district. “Otherwise, we just keep putting Band-Aids on existing structures that just aren’t working anymore.” 

Because the three schools are over capacity by more than 700 students as of December 2012, programs have been cut or modified.

Students are learning music and art from mobile carts, with no dedicated rooms. World language and enrichment classes have been cut in the lower grades, and physical education times have been reduced in first grade because of increased class size.

These numbers refer to permanent structures and do not take the portable classrooms at Golden Brook School into account.  The portables currently house close to 200 students.

The new athletic field at the high school would support six teams on Astroturf.

“Currently six teams are using a grass field and by overuse, the conditions are unfavorable and unsafe,” Saklad said. “If we have a better field, we can host championship games that bring money to the sports teams.”

The cost for the new middle school with its own athletic fields is $29.7 million, and the new multi-purpose athletic field with turf, seating and lighting is $1.9 million.

The tax increase will be based on the Town valuation and bond lengths, so I can't give you an exact number right now.  The school district’s business administrator Adam Steel is working on those estimates for a bond hearing to be held Friday, Jan. 11.

“Our mission is to let people in town know what’s going on so that we can get the 60 percent vote we need at Town Meeting,” Saklad said.

Related Topics: Athletic Fields, Middle School, SAU 28, School District, Students, Windham School District, and Wins

Celia Brown

6:22 am on Monday, January 7, 2013

There are two concerns I have..Maybe someone reading this article can help. Besides a retrofit of the existing WMS, portables, and the push in this article for a new school, were there other options considered? I do not recall. But additional options include leased space and more feasibly virtual learning.

Virtual learning will address specific space and curriculum deficiencies including the above Science, Spanish, and even language arts middle school courses. From what I have not seen, it appears that ALL the options have not been vetted.

2nd concern is the OVERALL price tag. That is BOTH fixed and operational costs to run the school district. This unfortunately includes the pending teacher contract and the ADDITIONAL cost of that to the tax payer. So as a tax payer, I can't reall y support or not support a bond until I get the FULLY LOADED cost to my wallet.

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Celia Brown

6:32 am on Monday, January 7, 2013

This comes at a really bad time to the town where the tax payers who are fortunate to still have a job, have effectively lost a significant % of their take home pay due to the Fiscal Cliff mess that increased Federal Witholding. The bigger increase is the cost of healthcare brought on by the Affordable Care Act. Both of these happened this month....

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Patriot

8:53 am on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Celia, this comment is encapsulating; “Right now, there is no science lab or tech education at the middle school,”
Where is the "State?"
*
The state shall not mandate or assign any new, expanded or modified programs or responsibilities to any political subdivision in such a way as to necessitate additional local expenditures by the political subdivision unless such programs or responsibilities are fully funded by the state or unless such programs or responsibilities are approved for funding by a vote of the local legislative body of the political subdivision.

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Jay

9:38 am on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Patriot, (reworded my original post)

Although many understood it that way...two areas Kindergartens and budget reductions that forces town contributions to pensions to increase

Dennis Senibaldi

9:50 am on Monday, January 7, 2013

It is unfortunate that the School Board did not follow Mike Jonas's direction and just go for the addition at Middle School to add the much needed space. That at least had a chance to pass. This new school is a continued pipe dream of certain School Board members to build a campus atmosphere on London Bridge Rd, regardless if it make sense or not. At 30 +/- million it is not going to pass and the kids are the ones who will pay. The additional operational cost for a new school will be 600k to 1 million all day long. When I first posed this question to Adam Steel he told me 600k, then when they were on TV it was 200k. If I am not mistaken 500k was recently stated. So what is it? Think about this, New principle, office assistant, nurse, guidance councilor, lunch staff, janitor and a few more I probably missed. The principle alone, with salary / benefits, will cost you 110k +/-. That is just one employee.

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Dennis Senibaldi

9:59 am on Monday, January 7, 2013

This is one of the reasons that the facility committee ended up at an addition at middle school as the best option. Never mind the extra transition we talked about and a million other reason not to build a new school. We spent over a year working on this, with principles, teachers, school board members and architects, only to have it dismissed in a two week period by a new consultant who said building a new school was the way to go. If you remember last year, the "new addition design", which the company produced in two weeks was 26 million and the new school was 24 million. What happened

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Keleigh McAllister

11:25 am on Monday, January 7, 2013

I went to the first WINS volunteer meeting, with the typical reservations, whoa that seems like a lot of money. I left with an appreciation for the struggles within our district and a clear sense of why the option for a new Middle School is the fiscally responsible option. In grades 1-8 we are 700+ students over capacity. Children are learning in hallways, closets and stairwells. The current “Middle School” lacks science lab and technology curriculum due to space. It is time to educate ourselves, look at the numbers, check out WINS Facebook page and website. This is a tough decision but in the end investing in our children’s education will pay back again and again. There is no doubt, the past 5 years have been a struggle for many people, including my family. In the past two years in Windam we bought our first house, struggled with the stress of job loss, worried when our 20 year old car died, how we would afford another. I cringed waiting for my first 2013 paycheck. An increase in health insurance and end of Social Security Payroll Tax Holiday, decreased my monthly take home by $52. For some that is dinner out, for us that means we will probably continue to shovel our driveway by hand save for that snow blower next year. When the exact numbers come out at the bond hearing on January 11, I will be thinking about the tax effect and what that really means to my family. What is the price we put on education in our town? A Cable bill? Cell Phone? Season Ski Passes?

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Celia Brown

1:45 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

So I'll sell my house, move to a trailer park, so that pupil class size can be reduced at WMS. Given that I'm not getting a raise (like everyone else) and the feds take more out of my check, and staple items are rising in cost, where do I draw the line? I'm not saying NO today but we are living in a declining economy and around the corner from rabid inflation. So there is SENSITIVITY when it comes to taxation. And because of that, we need to be realistic on what options we realistically have.

Like you and everyone else, we moved here for the schools.

Dennis Senibaldi

11:35 am on Monday, January 7, 2013

@keleigh,
I agree that there is an issue with overcrowding in our school system. My kids actually go to WMS and I am shocked at the lack of facilities. That is one of the main reason I volunteered for the committee. The committee spent over a year working on this problem and as I stated in my last post, economically it was a better solution for an addition on the WMS. Some of the detractors were, extra transition, staffing and economics to name a few. Is it truly worth spending an extra 600k to 1 million a year in staffing at a new school when you could save that money by putting an addition of the WMS?

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Keleigh McAllister

9:37 am on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

I have reviewed the work of the facilities committee and I am impressed by the thoughtful and creative solutions produced. However, we need to be clear on the costs of the options on the table. In October 2012, costs were determined. Phased Addition Option = $42,870,000 and takes 10 years to solve our overcrowding issues. As far as I can tell it does not address the parking/traffic issues and gives very little future space flexibility. The New 7/8 School Option proposes $29,940,000 for the New 7/8 School, $6,240,000 for possible expansion to add space for 6th grade and eliminate portables at Golden Brook, and $7,150,000 for future addition to Golden Brook (NOTE: these future additions are not part of the current proposal but to be fair I am comparing both total proposed solutions plus HS Fields). This means the New School Proposal comes to $46,830,000. Essentially we are talking about a $4million dollar difference, a solution in 2 years compared to 10 years and an increase in future flexibility. Plus by only passing the current proposal for New 7/8 and HS Fields we solve all the overcrowding and can worry about future additions if truely needed later, much later:) Note all numbers taken from October 2012 (see link) http://www.windhamsd.org/schbdinfo/LBA-Update-2012-10-10.pdf
Also as a side note, while I am a recent resident, I love this town and I have made my home here. This is a problem facing our community and we need to facilitate constructive dialogue for a solution.

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Dennis Senibaldi

6:35 pm on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

@keleigh,
does it matter that if you spend approx. 47,000,000 in two years you will tax a lot of people out of town?

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Dennis Senibaldi

6:37 pm on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

Also 4,000,000 is a lot of money....but it is just not the cost to build, it is the operational cost over the long run.

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Keleigh McAllister

8:33 am on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

This is great discussion. Just to clarify, my overall point is the Phased Addition Option is incredibly expensive, time consuming and does not actually solve our problems. The New 7/8 School Option (October Data was a bond for $30million, although this will be confirmed with details on the HS Fields Friday January 11,2012) will immediately solve overcrowding issues in the district. The idea that our residents would be taxed for $47million in two years in simply incorrect. That is not how bonds work. Please see comments by GrassisGreener in this thread to explain how the bond + operating costs are evaluated for taxes. With regards to operating costs, I do not have exact numbers but from previous experience, an addition is not immune to increased operating costs. This is an excellent compare and contrast question that requires more information and discussion.

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Dennis Senibaldi

5:12 pm on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

@keleigh,
I know how the bonds work. I was suggesting the we were spending 47 million in two years. Yes I understand that the payments are spread over 10,20,30 years. The fact still remains that we would be spending 47 million in a two year period. Just because the payments are spread over a long time does not negate that fact.

As to operating cost, yes they can, and probably, go up over the years. The fact still remains that a new school cost more than the addition to the tune of 600-to a million a year.

Nate

11:59 am on Monday, January 7, 2013

Is the upgrade to the sports field tied to the new school?
I would definetly be in favor of spending some money to finish the sports fields at the high school properly but if it's a package deal I will definetly not be able to support a new school and all the staffing and costs associated with it.

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Celia Brown

1:36 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

I fully agree....the field as it stands today sucks. It needs to be widened to support an actual football game, with bleachers. Too bad it's tied to a completely separate project.

One Man Wolf Pack

1:08 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

How come voters are never presented with two options for a school fix?
How come it is nothing but that one option of NEW BIG BUCKS school that will work that we have to vote on over and over?
Are we to believe there is no other option at all that is viable?

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Celia Brown

1:33 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

Keleigh McAllister, to set the record straight, My additional contribution to healthcare and FICA (federal) withholding is a little over $1,200 per month. I have a family of four and have our kids attending Windham schools. I too want the best education more than anyone else. That's 300 bucks less per week....That's more than one dinner out my dear.

My point is that other options need to be vetted and voted on to determine functional and financial ROI.

Leasing

Adding to existing structure

VLACS - Virtual learning for middle school for NH (Other schools use this option for courses not offered in their brick and mortar school)

Voluntary school vouchers to take a small percentage of students and cut them a check to go to a private school.

AREA agreement with other school systems that have shrinkage of students

The point is that the total pupil population of Windham will taper off and we will, at some point in the near future, have the reverse problem. So maybe the prudent option is to go with a temporary solution which in some cases has no capital expense.

VLACS alone can take some of the class size off. I went on the website and found a large quantity of on line coursework. Why hasn't this been vetted by the school board?

http://vlacs.org/index.php?option=com_course&view=course&Itemid=140

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Celia Brown

1:33 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

As I said, Salem uses this VLACS subscription service for students, as example, wish to take an economics course but is not offered on campus. Wildly successful!!!!

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Celia Brown

1:38 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

Also, what will be the plan and cost to re-vamp our school security strategy. Sandy Hook changed everything including our interim response to the issue. Where are we at with a plan and actionable items making our schools safer? That too will be at an additional cost. Right?

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Danyelle Stuckart

1:39 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

I attended the School Board meeting when public input was requested and considered and both the phased approach and a new school were discussed. I walked into the meeting in favor of the phased approach, but once I heard about many of the specifics, including the timeline, my mind changed strongly in favor of a new 7/8 school.

From the meeting, it was my understanding that if Phase I passed in 2013, construction of Phase I could be completed in 2014-2015. This would bring us the tech ed classrooms and science labs. There would be major disruptions of learning due to the construction and would not impact WCS or GBS in terms of relief from over crowding.

Then, if we waited two years to allow for the HS high water mark/bond fatigue, then we could TRY to pass the bond for Phase II in 2017. Phase II construction completion was predicted for 2018-2019. Therefore, it would be 2018 or 2019 before there would be adequate space to relieve overcrowding pressures at WCS and GBS. To me, that is way too long to wait for relief from our current classroom conditions.

If the new school passes, all grades could see relief, return of art/music rooms, etc as early as Jan of 2015 (or even sooner) instead of all of the waiting until 2018-2019 thru the phased approach.

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One Man Wolf Pack

3:28 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

So you went to one meeting, heard one position, and your convinced there is no other alternative?

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Danyelle Stuckart

5:15 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

No, that was just one factor, one meeting. The great thing about our District is you can attend the School Board meetings in person or watch on cable, and access a wealth of reports and information at www.windhamsd.org.

GrassisGreener

1:46 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

You can easily understand the Tax Impact of this decision. There are 3 main factors at play:

* Town Valuation ($2.04 Billion today)

* Bond Amount ($31M; Years; Interest Rate)

* Operating Cost of the Building (Estimated @ $931K annually which includes 5 new Teachers BTW)

The math to figure out the Tax Rate is simply this:
Annual Amount / (Valuation/1,000) = Tax Rate

For example:
There are all sorts of Bond scenarios but most often you pay a Principal + Interest. As the Principal is paid off the Interest gets lower and thus the total payment is lower. The School can also defer up to 2 years of Principal which I believe is the plan. Basically, you pay more in the beginning than you do later.

The big IF in this equation is the total Town Valuation. If it jumps up considerably the impact goes down, likewise if it drops considerably, it goes up. For this example, I held it the same as today for the next 25 years.

Using these Bond assumptions, this is around what this new school will cost. $31M, 25yr Bond @ 4% + $931K in Operating Costs to run the school:

Year 1 and Year 2: $0.61 (Bond Interest Only) + $0.46 Operating = $1.06 / $1,000 assessed valuation of your home. For $350K that's $212.54.

Year 3 (highest) = $1.27 (P&I) + $0.46 Operating = $1.72 / $1,000 = $443.55 on a $350K home.

Year 25 (lowest) = $1.14 or $240.26

So annually it will cost somewhere between $240.26 - $443.55 to build this school. That's with these assumptions

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Jay

9:32 am on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Educating Windham students costs over $16,300 per year per student. With residential percentage in the high 98% you will not see a valuation change to significantly offset taxes in the lifetime of any resident that "does not have children living with them any more". Additionally to the math...a family of 4 moving into town will cost the town almost $400k to educate that family, but the average family only contributes ($300k home) about $5500 per year to the school bill. So the good news is that the $600k homes contribute about $11k...but will they stay, downsize or move to Vail, Marco Island, ? when their children are educated?

Something to think about next time Walmart, casinos, or xyz come-a-knocking!

wm as it is.

2:18 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

better yet why don't we build one large school kindergarten thru 8th as a lot of people in the boston area are use too, sell the other properties and send out some pink slips.if we are going to explore options let's look at the big picture and consider the students and the tax payer's.which i know might be an outdated idea but at least one we should consider .

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TonyM

2:19 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

Amazing about how most of these people have only lived in Windham for a short period of time and they demand a new school. Lets get by with trailers and lets quit playing mind games with classroom size. If you subtract the special needs students with assigned aides in the classroom, we have no overcrowding. We cant afford higher taxes at this time. Why don't you cry babies go after the Planning Board and Zoning Board and get some commercial development in town. Then you can take that additional tax base and build a new school?

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wm as it is.

2:31 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

i totally agree. but you do know this has nothing to do with the student.

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One Man Wolf Pack

3:15 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

aren't we happy that we said no to a Lowes now?

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Kevin Lefebvre, Ph.D.

6:34 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

Tony,
Can you clarify your comment "lets quit playing mind games with classroom size"? What do you mean? Do you think someone somewhere is playing with the numbers? If so, do you have data and/or proof to back this up because I would like to see it. Thanks.
Also, portables are not permanent and have a cost associated with them (maintenance, leasing, etc.). In addition, Windham will not stop from growing. We are in a prime real estate location (remember, when buying real estate, Location Location Location is key). Easy on/off to 93, close to shopping in Salem but not the traffic, close to Nashua but not the headaches, close to Boston, close to the shore and close to the mountains. With the said, Windham will continue to grow. It may not be at the rate we have seen it grow in the past but it will continue to grow.

Barbara Coish

4:08 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

A 5th building added to our school system does not have support. Aside from the transitions for the students, additional operating costs will be excessive. It took a year of interacting with voters to pass the high school, which was a necessity since Salem no longer wanted Windham students. There is not enough time for this committee to convince a negative electorate to vote for a new middle school. As Dennis states...the School Board has completely ignored one year of hard work accomplished by the Facilities Committee which recommended additions to current buildings. I am not in favor of the proposed bond for a new middle school and will work against its passage..

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Danyelle Stuckart

1:25 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

Barbara,
We know your position. We know you're not in favor of the 7/8. And, yes we have watched you work against its passage. But there IS support for the 7/8. If there wasn't, you wouldn't be on here at all trying to sell your side.

wm as it is.

4:40 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

this town is supposedly built out and a lot of boomer's exchanged their homes with younger families in the last 5-7 years.the average newengland family stay's in their home 25 years or more, don't fall prey to national stats they don;t apply here..i would hate to be paying for and staffing something we won't need again until it's time to replace.

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GrassisGreener

11:08 am on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

It's definitely not built out yet. There's a CTAP study that was done as part of the Widen 93 project. Depending on variance changes that could be enacted Windham could see upwards of 6,673 Residential Dwelling Units. When the report was done in 2010 there were 4,990. You can review the report on the Town website.

So the beauty of the New WMS option is it solves the overcrowding today but also provides the ability to add another grade to it in the future if needed as it will be Cored (Gym, Cafe, Media Center, etc.) to support 1,000 students.

Windham is a pretty centralized location in New England and with a desirable school system people will pay a premium to live here.

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wm as it is.

11:23 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013

new englands is industry has shrunk drasticly redistributed all over the country windham was the only town with any growth to speak of mostly due to evaporating high income earners looking for upper end bargains. there is a reason they are bargains.
doesn't anyone remember the 80's only now we have no monopoly on industry to speak of. this isn't going to last. if your going to crunch numbers crunch them all.

David A.

5:07 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

@ Celia. You are a clown if you think that virtual learning for 12 year olds is appropriate. You seem to have a lot of time to post comments to this board on all manner of subjects - I even remember you saying that Kuster was "done" close to the end of election season. Wrong again. And you are so full of it regarding an additional $1,200/month from implementation of PPACA. Spare me the right-wing BS.

@TonyM Nice comment regarding the newbies. Wonder if the Native Americans had similar thoughts when colonial settlement began in Windham?

We moved here thinking that Windham was a great place to raise our kids, with a growing population of economically-successful families that want to ensure their own kids can take it to the next level. I left Massachusetts b/c their priorities were not my priorities. If I still lived there. my kids would be educated in a trailer so some hack's brother-in-law could have a fully funded pension. You want them to be educated in a trailer here because you've already raised your kids here and think "I got mine".

No apologizes from this space. I want to provide my kids with opportunity that I didn't have growing up in an urban setting - and if that costs an extra $250 a year I consider that a bargain. And I've got news for you - there's more of us moving here every day.

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Celia Brown

5:25 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

Sorry to burst your bubble but VLACS is used extensively at Salem HS today. Online is appropriate as these same 12-14 year olds are active online social participants. I'm friends with some of them (as my kids are friends with them). so before you blow your load in this forum, do some basic research.

There is no difference between being socially active online and learning on line...as a major part of any on line learning experience is the social networking/group collaboration component. And the VLACS format allows 1 on 1 instruction and coaching from a certified teacher. It is more than a viable option with a plethora of core classes offered.

My check doesn't lie sir. And I am a sole supporter of a family of 4. I count every penny because I have to.

As far as right wing - I also publicly congratulated St Laurent for running for office and wished Lynch remained as governor.

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wm as it is.

5:59 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

I have a child in the middle school, guess what she lives and she learns if i thought this was about the students i would be glad to pay, but this is about the same people you were not happy with in mass.just creating more of them.250 a year! when are you going to learn.

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Jay

6:08 pm on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

David A.

...I left Massachusetts b/c their priorities were not my priorities. If I still lived there. my kids would be educated in a trailer so some hack's brother-in-law could have a fully funded pension. You want them to be educated in a trailer here because you've already raised your kids here and think "I got mine"....

Please remember that many of us have been here for a while now. Are you willing to stay for decades too? Do you realize that putting 5 schools in the town instead of expanding the existing 4 buildings increases costs. Not only in running the building but among other things "some hack's brother-in-law's pension".

Everyone focuses on the cost of the buildings, but that is minimal in the educational costs. A 5 building proposal is not a fiscally responsible solution.

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Michael Ryan

5:23 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

Hi all, I know this is an emotional topic but please refrain from calling other users names. That is strictly against our Terms of Use.

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Kevin Lefebvre, Ph.D.

6:25 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

Celia
Thank you for adding to the discussion. I would like to add a couple of additional comments regarding VLACS
I think it is a great idea. However, I have not only have taken online classes but have also taught online classes and not everyone can learn in this environment. I would actually rate online learning as advanced independent studying. With this said, I feel that is does have its place and it can be useful.
Second is that classes from 1-8 have been compromised due to the overcrowding and having students in the middle school take VLACS will not solve the overcrowding in the lower grades.
Third commit is that courses like tech ed and science labs are extremely difficult to teach online if not impossible. These are the courses that are lacking at the middle school which is preventing WMS from being an approved Middle School (currently it is approved as an advanced grade school). By the way, I taught technical online courses and it is very very difficult but again, I feel it has a place but do not feel it will solve the overcrowding from grades 1-8.

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M Saklad

10:04 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

I appreciate the dialogue. What I find most interesting is that most, if not all of us agree that our schools are overcrowded, and the problem needs to be addressed. The question is, “How do we fix it?”… The school board came up with this solution based on extensive research and voter input. The crowding is getting worse, and the solution continues to increase in price. Construction costs and interest rates will go up. Can we all stop bickering, and remember this is for our children, and community? We need to work together and support the educational needs of the children and build a solid foundation for the future of our town.

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Dennis Senibaldi

10:45 pm on Monday, January 7, 2013

@M Saklad,,
The SB did not do extensive research to come up with this solution. They took a years worth of research and dismissed it for their grand plan on LBR.

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Kevin Lefebvre, Ph.D.

6:43 am on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

Dennis
From the timeframe the Final Master Plan Facility Committee Report was presented in June 2011 to the time when the additional options were presented (Oct 2012) was over a year. From what I understand, during that time the school board was posed some questions and they did some additional work and presented several options to the community. In addition, their were several individuals on that committee that are current school board members so it would seem to me that they are pretty informed about the results of the advisory committee recommendations along with the current work to come up with the best and most cost effective solution.

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Nate

12:17 pm on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

It does not seem reasonable to carry five schools and all the resources needed to keep these operational.I would like to see the taxpayers get something back and maybe have some more upfront costs but remove one or two of the existing schools and combine and remove jobs that are not needed with having them operate out of one building.
I think there needs to be a little more out of the box type thinking here that has something for everybody including people without schoolage children.
For me it can't just be we need a new school so let's build it.
If this school is built I feel it will only be a matter of time before people are pushing for a new elementary school just to keep up with the other two because are old rundown elementary school just doesn't have the facilities are middle and high school have.
I also have children in gbs and center school and yes it is a shame it is overcrowded but I have hit the wall with the tax situation here in town and I feel like it has to stop.
In the last ten years my taxes have more than doubled.I have no clue how I will be able to afford living in this town if that same trend continues over the next ten years.

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Kevin Lefebvre, Ph.D.

1:55 pm on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

Nate
Removal of schools is not an option unless you build a larger school which would mean even higher taxes. From what I understand, for the capital expenditure, the school board is working a plan that we will not exceed our current high water mark in taxes which was FY12 and which I think will occur around 2016 and then decrease (with a decrease from Fy12 to FY16 too). There will be more information released soon. If you have not taken a look, I would suggest you look at the facility discussion presentation which oulined the options (http://www.windhamsd.org/schbdinfo/WSB%20Facilities%20Discussion%2011-5-2012.pdf). As for a new elementary school, from what I heard both elementary schools are solidly constructed and have a lot of life left in them.

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Jay

6:16 pm on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

Kevin,

Can you explain this? - ...unless you build a larger school which would mean even higher taxes.

I'll be the first to disagree. Having all the students of say k-4 in one school is more efficient than having them in two schools.

Having a separate wing an new/additional gym at WHS to house the 7-8th grades is more efficient than having a separate building.

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wm as it is.

5:24 pm on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

I moved here in 98 and have watched my tax bill go up three fold i have seen growth that at least should have doubled revenue, there are no new service's to speak of and the construction and renovation of the town although plentiful seemed to be managed well and had little impact on this increase.and since 98 was the last time anyone in the private sector received a salary increase of any merit.i think its time we took a good look at where this money is going and see if its well spent before we have one school for each class. 5 schools for a town of 14000 ???.

Kevin Lefebvre, Ph.D.

10:20 pm on Tuesday, January 8, 2013

Jay
Please go back and reread my sentence. " Removal of schools is not an option unless you build a larger school which would mean even higher taxes. " You missed the "Removal of school" statement which means if you eliminate (e.g. GBS), you would not only need space to house all of the GBS students but more space to take care of the overcrowding.

I would tend to disagree about adding a wing to the HS. You will most likely not have the HS staff, beyond janitors, also administer the middle school students. In addition, you would not want the middle school students with the high school students during lunch so even more building and staff. At the end of the day, building a wing on the HS may cost just as much as a new middle school. This is going on the assumption that there is room next to the HS to support additional a wing, additional parking and sports fields.

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Jay

8:35 am on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Kevin,

Thank you for the clarity I now understand, you missed the SB proposal that stated GBS was unfit and had to be torn down. I was putting on the table the 'solution' for those that are 'for expansion on LBR.'

Please review the construction of Bedford HS. There is definitely a saving in that type of configuration that you are underestimating. As for lunch I would not commingle students. For instance the budget was voted down last year, and many years prior since the ongoing fiasco's of building school (that is singular on purpose but should be plural). When this happens one time expenses/costs are subtracted and contractual obligations are added. Although there was an obligation to pay teachers more if they had a degree change believe it or not, there was a contractual obligation of nearly the same amount to pay for additional landscaping and snow removal ($362, 651 VS $306,724). I would imagine for 5 buildings that increase would have been $383,405! That is almost 5 teachers "fully loaded"!

This effort is about building a consortium of people in town that represents the town as a whole. It is a crime that the efforts of those brought together to put solutions on the table, that had a possibility of passing were swept off the table. This is coming from someone that believes we need more classrooms/labs and teachers. This will get a NO vote from me what a waste of a year!

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GrassisGreener

12:26 pm on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Jay,

Windham has been a dog chasing it's tail on this for a long time. It's easy to point at Bedford but in hindsight they did it right from the start where that school was built as a 7-12. We could mimic something but you really start splitting hairs.

Pure construction cost (i.e. brick and mortar) is going to be 87,000 sq. ft. @ ~$200/ sq. ft. $17.4M regardless of the option. Add site work, soft costs, etc. and you're looking at $25 - $27M for WMS.

Next there's $5M for Fields: $1.9 "Stadium" (in Bond) and $3M for the Track.

Then $15M for GBS to replace the portables with a permanent structure plus renovate it. Some debate on what would need to be done there if this passes but leaving for worst case scenario.

You have $44 - $47M of Capital costs that will enter the system at some point.

If you strip out all of the people cost from the budget each school costs ~$600K to keep it warm, cool, shovel, cut the grass, etc.

So it truly is a $2-3M Capital Cost + Annual Cost of ~$600K decision.

Ask yourself?
- Roll the dice on the kids education especially 1 - 5 when it's most critical
- Bond rates are at an all time low...2 Years it might be, 5, 7, 8%, who knows?
- Ability to add space in future (Widen-93)?
- $600K Opex is $0.29 / $1,000
- $2M Capital is $0.98 One-Time (It's $0.04 spread over 25 years)

Difference between a 4% and 5% interest rate on the $31M bond is $5.3M. Make sense to waste a year, 2 or 3?

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Jay

8:18 pm on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

@GrassisGreener,

Its easy to point to Bedford, because Windham SB used Bedford for *everthing* when it was convenient. They did not use them when the answer did not align with what was desired. The topics of phased transition of grades, middle/highschool co-existence, secondary access, IB education, accreditation all resonate from past past discussions. While Bedford "built a functional high school/middle school building, it is unbelievable the Taj Mahal built by Windham" (a school administrator friend of mines quote who worked in Bedford). In the end the Windham costs were a lot higher than expected and presented and approved by the tax payer. This has resulted in quite a rise in the taxes that we pay and the real problem is that while the proper amount of tax dollars were 'applied to a capacity problem'. It focused on one segment of the student population. It is a crime, now what I'm hearing is that we are going down the same path. A phased, approach could effectively apply the addition and/or renovation and incur debt and absorption of the staffing for the additional classrooms/labs/etc. Like you I can not predict the build out rate, the birthrate, the interest rate and future state level funding for education. But the "all of nothing" ballot items have proven to be a dead end. For those new to town, I don't think any school warrant article every failed until recent years!

Jay

9:59 am on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

"“Currently six teams are using a grass field and by overuse, the conditions are unfavorable and unsafe,” Saklad said. “If we have a better field, we can host championship games that bring money to the sports teams.”

I realize that some don't know of the previous proposal to build the stadium. Turf fields are not "maintenance free" and have a lifetime in which there is an additional large cost for replacement. The justification is only made when you start looking at "how many times" the surface can be used within a day/week/etc. The only justifiable cost model has to include lighting (which the previous proposal did not include) and to use it for 'rentals'/'tournaments'/'camps' you additionally needed stands/seating (not in the previous proposal). What we are finding out now is that although a track WAS included in the previous proposal to rally more support, we find out that the track WONT fit around the existing field in the current proposal to be turfed, lit and with stands. This limits the type of rentals/meets that you can bring in. Having run high school concessions at events that have about 15k+ spectators you have to sell a whole lot of hotdogs and coke for these games to come close to bringing in a significant amount of money. It is the rental business that offsets these programs/justifies cost.

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Nate

12:16 pm on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Kevin,
I have read that report you linked many times and it does absolutely nothing to make me think any different on this issue.The new school just from looking at the diagrams doesn't even appear to have more classrooms than the current school.
Yes removal of schools is an option and should be considered in the future if we are trying to be fiscally responsible as noted in that report.
In the report we are going to need another 13 million to renovate GBS and add a sixth grade at the new school.
Yes the cost of building a bigger school will be more but can these costs be offset by housing everything under 3 roofs?
Just as an example remove WMS and Golden Brook.
Put K-2 at Center school 3-8 at a new school.Sell the land off that gbs and wms sit on.Your administration and operational costs would go down.Without knowing these figures I can only guess that these would be substantial savings.
Not that I think this is the best idea but something like this needs to be thought out and given consideration.Personally I want something that is thinking of the whole future hear and not have to deal with more band-aids every few years.

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M Saklad

12:59 pm on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

Jay,

Just to clarify…Were you referring to Bedford NH? If so, yes their school district is one of the top school districts in the state. The built a new HS, and a separate 7/8 middle school, just as Windham is proposing. The school is Lurgio Middle School. Look at their test scores on line, very impressive. www.myschoolrankings,com
My friends that live in the community are happy that their overcrowding issues are finally solved, with an amazing end-result. The town is very happy with their decision, and now that the bond is decreasing, their tax rates are lower than many other communities in NH.

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Jay

4:39 pm on Wednesday, January 9, 2013

You have to do more than a google search to realize that they are separate. One address has the # and the other #A so they look separate. I imagine they did this to steam line the accreditation while in the same building. But Lurgio Middle School and Bedford High School is building with different education and shared 'other' shared facilities. Here is a link with picture! - http://www.eckmanconstruction.com/2011/03/12/bedford-hs-ms/ Almost looks like WHS! I'm familiar with this since I have a friend in administration that specifically was recruited to help open up the facility and we had a long discussion on the similarities and differences of Windham VS Bedford. The end result is that they have a combined space, turf fields, track, etc build during the same timeperiod for both the middle school and high school. Even though they had the same problem as Windham with secondary access to the building it opened on time for something like $10M less than WHS. BTW houses something line 1250 High school students and 2100 students total. So do we want to start another $30-35M project that like WHS that grew to something like $55M when we can't pass a warrant article for architecture/guaranteed price?

On capacity/testing it really is unfortunate that WHS students went from a crowded SHS environment to WHS and their SAT scores went down. Maybe we thrive in that environment :-) Put something on the ballot that I can vote YES!

M Saklad

10:38 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

Jay, respectively, I did not “google search” the school, as I too have a friend in Bedford. After reading my quick response, I realize that I was not clear .Yes, the schools have a “shared core”. The schools are considered separate. Their core consists of shared kitchen, but they each have their own cafeteria.The middle school, and high school gym back up to each other so it can be one gym. Bedford did a good job convincing their voters that their overcrowding was not a “bubble”. It would have been nice to have the ability to save money, and build our schools at the same time, but it is too late.The core of WHS does not support this type of facility. It was difficult enough to convince voters to approve WHS, the added cost of this type of facility would have been defined as “Elaborate”, or a “Taj Mahal”. The problem is many are penny wise, but pound foolish. Bedford schools were overcrowded by 256 students when they passed their middle school. We are overcrowded by 741, and people in Windham are still claiming it is a bubble. It is the same story all over again. Bond rates are at record lows, and builders are hungry. Fact, our schools are overcrowded, the town needs to do something, are you suggesting we wait a few more years for construction rates to rise, and bond rates to increase, and ten build the school foe significatly more I agree it’s too bad. Lesson learned, do it right the first time.

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Jay

10:12 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013

I respectfully disagree. We are at 700+ over on paper due to the methodologies of the last study that migrate educational space into the core space category. Do you really think Bedford would have allowed a "real" over 700 #?

I responded since you seemed to want to imply that the Bedford HS was a 'separate building' it is not. Additionally Bedford and Windham were in the heat of this discussion at the same time. So I agree where the Bedford SB and parents educated the public. At the same period of time they built a middle school and a high school (attached) as Windham ignored lower level capacity designed, redesigned, argued about laptops, school colors and had construction overruns that doubled (? significantly increased at least) the costs. In the end for approximately the same price and over the same time period Bedford ended up with 2 schools with larger capacity at both the Middle School and HS. They even came up with an agreement on how to operate the school without secondary access until the town could approve the road and intersection to elevate the concerns. In Windham, we seem to have to take more educational funds to build a town road!

The bottom line is that the planning in Windham has been suspect before and I think it is now and will cost us more money that the studies/solutions from the 2 previous "unanimous solutions" that were done to solve the overcrowding problems in the lower grades.

M Saklad

10:44 pm on Friday, January 25, 2013

Also, we agree on another point, test scores are starting to fail at WHS, I know, I have a student there. A couple of the teachers have told me that the students’ aren’t able to keep up with the WHS curriculum, especially in Science. The lack of Science labs and instruction is affecting our students. When our students attended SHS our town offered enrichment, world languages, and students had the opportunity to go to an art, and music room, and reap the benefits of the unified arts. Our overcrowding in the middle school is so severe that we have lost enrichment, and they are not even offered a technology curriculum, and you’re surprised by the falling test scores? Great point, our problem is starting to hurt our children.

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Jay

9:57 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013

I don't know when you moved to town so I want to assure you the 'cart instruction' has been here a lot longer than you think or are portraying to the new comers. Also World Languages is offered with a fulltime staff and has been for years. In fact when my children went through the school system and attended SHS. Up until last year every graduating class was from SHS! Despite state of the art technology that not one other high school students in NH have, they still lag behind in standardize testing....once they reach high school. They are "appropriately" testing in the lower grades. This was not the case at SHS where my kids were exposed to overcrowding and had to carry books all day since they couldn't reach their locker and return to class due (necessary) location of the locker. I said the thriving in the overcrowded environment in jest...but from the outside looking in it seems to be spot on. I do believe we need to solve the overcrowded problem.

Last I don't know what carted education area has to do with falling behind in science labs.

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Danyelle Stuckart

1:10 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

Plus, World Language and Enrichment were cut at Windham Center School.
Enrichment was cut at Golden Brook as well. Those are all feeder programs to WMS and WHS. Can you imagine what hell would break loose in Windham if we cut our feeder programs for sports?!

Full time instruction for World Language at WMS. But, is it the best learning environment to learn Spanish in a class w/33 students? Or squished into 1/2 of the media center?

GrassisGreener

10:39 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013

@Jay

Seriously go to the NH DOE and look up Accountability stats. Art and Music are about exploration and expressions of creativeness. Think those are relevant in Science? Think Math is critical in Science.

Before shooting from the hip and say they're appropriately testing in the lower grades look at the data:

GBS: SINI Year 1 in Reading and Math
WCS: SINI Year 3 in Reading and Year 2 in Math
WMS: SINI Year 2 in Reading and New SINI in Math

In this case the "stuff" flows uphill and these kids are not being prepared to achieve in High School nor beyond.

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Jay

11:16 am on Saturday, January 26, 2013

@GrassisGreener,

I will look at the test scores as I admittedly have not in a year.

I was surprised that dramatic improvements in the WHS testing did not appear as previously 'promised' with all the investment done there as much as I agree that there needs to be added capacity that has been ignored at the same time we build more than enough (wasted) capacity at WHS. Take a look at all the 'district wide' capacity reports from the past 3-4 years. Why do they neglect to include any WHS space?

The point of my rebuttal is that returning labs to the middle school, removing cart teaching as well as Bedford having an independent building are all falsehoods that are being presented as reasons why we need to build a new middle school. Also the 700 figure is a falsehood IF someone spends the time to look at the 3-4 iterations of capacity studies that we paid for and understood how that number is derived.

Now the reason WHS students don't do well in the standard testing is because they were exposed to the same environment that has existed here for a decade? A school environment where people flock to the town to buy property? The carts have been here and in other communities for years. The labs have not existed and the same experiments were performed in the same manner when my children were in the middle school and a Bedford parent can drop off their highschool student and middle schooler at the same stop.

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GrassisGreener

1:17 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013

@Jay

Yeah, I'm not really sure what it is but there are downstream factors that aren't helping that's for sure. I'm sure some of it is attributed to the migration effect from Salem to WHS. Different curriculum being developed, massaged, changed, etc. Maybe this crop of kids are just "dumb"? :)

I think it was right to keep WHS out of the recent studies as it would be wrong to start using that space without a full class there. You just send kids up there for a year then take them out again? Probably more harm than good. The latest capacity study done by the School Administrators does include the HS. Interesting that many course requests are rejected.

On the capacity study iterations it's easy to not take into account all of the data. You see a capacity study in 2009 with GBS of 540 and now you say "what the heck they're telling me it's 306?" The Core and Ed space is not every easy for all to comprehend but it has a major impact. Take an Art which is a Core space. If that rooms is used as intended 20 different butts can sit in those seats 30 periods a week. When you convert it only 20 'same' butts can sit in those seats 30 periods a week. As you take all of the Core and make them Classrooms how many kids the School can hold drops. This is magnified by the growing population of kids.

To further make the point, GBS has a capacity of 1,192 kids. Just go lecture style in the Gymacafetorium and we'll be in good shape. Not sure anyone likes that approach.

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Danyelle Stuckart

1:14 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

They may flock without being able to get full information about the state of our schools. Tours at Golden Brook School are not allowed. Unsure of the others. But, you're buying w/out seeing. Yes, you can drive by and see the portable, but you can't see inside w/the carted instruction, or see us busting at the seams.
Do you believe that Real Estate Agents tell the full story? Or do you believe they use our new high school w/the 1:1 Mac Program as a fabulous selling point!

GrassisGreener

1:33 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013

@Jay

Ran out of space. I think it would be absolutely great if the School Board had the cajones to restore all Core space in our Elementary Schools and WMS to their rightful purpose. Being a bit facetious but it would certainly magnify the situation and make it this Capacity discussion crystal clear. No more hallways, no more carts. Also, restore all of the curriculum that's been cut such as Enrichment, World Language, etc. Give the Unified Arts their rooms back too. Then fill the Regular Education classes last. How many kids do you think we'd have per class then?

Do that and say "this is how we're going to operate going forward." Don't get rid of teachers just add another in the rooms we have available. It'll keep the class size down and the learning environment would be perfect (sarcasm).

Different perspective but the core issue is still the same. Too many kids, not enough rooms.

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Jay

7:33 pm on Monday, January 28, 2013

@Grassisgreener,

I just looked at the NECAP scores of Bedford, Salem, Londonderry, Hollis-Brookline, Windham just for science....just 8th and 11th.

What I saw was this:
Windham did not score as good as Hollis-Brookline (80% range for proficient at both the middle school and high school level).

Windham scored better than Salem, Londonderry and on the same level as Bedford in the 8th grade 50+% proficient in sciences IN THE 8TH Grade...

This changed in the 11th grade. WHS student "dropped" to the same level as Salem and Londonderry and below that of Bedford which retained and improved from 51% to 55% proficient.

Maybe the hotplate experiment in the classroom should be boxed and brought the WHS?!?! I am kidding.

Jay

4:14 pm on Saturday, January 26, 2013

@GrassisGreener,

It seems your shooting from the hip now, don't realize the history of the capacity studies, the 180 degree direction the SB has taken on the unified/unanimous recommendation from the building committee that the town people funded and appropriated engineering funds to develop the facitilities plan.

I'd look back on school budget increases, warrant articles approved/rejected and what programming was in place, in what form, and when. To say that carted programs in grade schools are the reason for WHS doing poor in science is humorous at best when those same programs were in place when Windham (as well as the average of Windham/Salem) performed better in what was sold as an inferior environment.

As for core vs educational space - if you go back and look at the logic for the segmenting of core/educational space you will find that WMS has a core approaching 700 students, but needs more educational space, from memory about 15 classrooms. So we are building a new school, what are the operational costs of that 5th school?

Please do a search in windham.patch.com and you will find a blog by a committee member that dives in and the difference between core and educational space and the debate that went on last year.

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soc

8:33 am on Tuesday, January 29, 2013

Has this been discussed: RE new state school building funding:
"The new system for School Building Aid will become effective in Fiscal Year 2014 which begins on July 1, 2013. The moratorium for votes by the legislative body continues through June 30, 2013. Districts that vote to approve a project prior to July 1, 2013 will not be eligible to receive School Building Aid for that project."

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Nickjo

2:26 pm on Wednesday, February 6, 2013

It is difficult for me to agree to raising taxes for a lot of things but our kids deserve normal sized class rooms with labs and a normal teach ratio. They deserve more than what they have currently. Operational costs, life span of artificial turf. Who are you all kidding? Do what's right for the kids. As towns grow we take on more tax revenue and we need to use that for the Police, Fire departments and most importantly the schools for OUR Children whether you have them or not it is your duty as a tax payer to pay. I am not sure how anyone can argue with doing something that will help our chilrden. Mr Senibaldi what you are taking about may be true and your facts may even be accurate but we voted for the SB and doing what's right is what we expect from our SB. What's wrong with this proposal? How can you argue that we do not need more space for our kids and our athletic fields are a mess? It can't be argued, I have two children that won't see the new 7th or 8th grade school and I have two that will. I am voting yes because I got to see what my kids dealt with at the Golden Brook. My two youngest spent time in trailers. I can't even tell people I know that I live in this so called "wealthy town" and my kids are in trailors. Think about what your true intensions are for voting no. Hope you sleep well at night. I think all of the town board should carefully review their stance on this. This is an emotional cause and people are not going to forget.

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Jay

10:30 am on Friday, February 8, 2013

Nickjo,

Let me translate what you just said. I have 4 child and $64,000+ is spent on their education today. How can you sleep at night knowing that I'm only asking you to spend $1000 more a year in taxes. Your complicating things with operational costs and saying that artificial turf is expensive and it not free to maintain. Do what is right for my kids and just vote yes.

People are not debating that the town's schools needs more space. We voted for the SB to put something on the ballot that would get passed and be in line with improving the school systems.

What they have done is put something on that I don't believe will get passed, was not in line with what had more support and *forgive me* had less of an impact on taxes for the town.

Where we agree is on your last statement - "this is an emotional cause and people don't forget." Take this from a HUGE supporter of a new high school...the "town" made that a mess to the point that it cost more to build and operate that ever expected or portrayed to the public. Do I believe what has been put on the table now by a relatively small group of people? I believe that we need more capacity and improve the schools in the lower grades and think the SB has done an "end around".

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Nickjo

6:20 pm on Friday, February 8, 2013

Here is the problem with political issues Jay. In order for us to get things done we need to give and take. You seem to think your solution is right and the only solution. We elected the SB to get things done and I believe they put together a plan that would be acceptable to more people. That majority clearly doesn't include you but it should. let's get this done sooner not later. We could debate issues over and over but in the end we vote for results. Cost less now then it will if we wait. I can show you projected cost of money. It never gets cheaper.

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soc

9:47 am on Saturday, February 9, 2013

Nickjo,

This is funny your making me laugh! "cost less now then if will if we wait". This has been stated year after year and the cost has just gone down and down. I'd like to see the projected cost of money but please put it in the context of the total costs of a new fifth building.

http://www.windhamsd.org/schbdinfo/Warrant%20Article%202.pdf
Page 24 - shows the cost of the bonding over a 25 year period. On the positive side it has a 'level' tax impact' for the capital costs for the district. But look at the total annual cost in relationship to the school budget. The reality is it is *ONLY* about 10% now and going down to 3% of the budget. Why? - because the *real* cost is in the operation and the hiring of teachers, etc.

Page 26 has proposed additional operating costs for a new building (vs addition/renovation). You can add anywhere between 50-100% to that number as they are flawed - no principle, no nurse, no cafeteria staff, benefits ratio seems to be incorrect and missing up to 4 teachers in 'specialty areas' are glaring omissions/discussion points.

The costs of 'building' the school = the costs of additional operating the new school...the problem is that over that 25 years the the cost of the bond goes down and the costs of operation, salaries, benefits goes up at a rate that will far exceed any bond cost increase in the future.

The 'SB' proposal far exceeds the long term costs of the "Facilities Building Committee proposal".

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Jay

6:22 pm on Saturday, February 9, 2013

Nickjo,

First it is not "my plan" so I don't know where you translated what I said to that. It was a recommended plan by a 'team of experts'. To me if you re-read my response above and comprehend the economics the giving and taking is happening on the level of taxes as well as the students. I'm giving and your of a group that is taking. Additionally, probably misinterpreting, you have 4 children two in the lower grades and 2 I'm guessing past those grades and at the WHS. If that is the case, then your older kids are taking and the younger children are giving in terms of the school budget. I'm willing to give, but like you I have the interest of my children to in mind as I would like them to be able to afford real estate in this town as well as raise their families in an good educational environment. I'd like to see your figures on how your proposal will end up being less expensive. I don't believe you.

Nickjo

9:49 am on Monday, March 11, 2013

Jay
How can you argue that it is not going to be less expensive? Look at charts on realestate appreciation. We are at rock bottom and unless you're one of those fear mogers who is expecting the next great depression. Since real estate has been measured realestate appreciation has shown a 5% return. It has to go up and will go up. So will interest. All waiting is going to do is delay this vote another year with the possability of that vote getting squashed, then the next year and the year after that. We can wait and then we become like Pelham with our children in unaccredited schools doing their work out of trailers. I am willing to take the risk for the good of my children. I do not have a crystal ball but neither do you or any of the people on your side of the fense. Answer the question??? What will waiting do except stall the enevitable? Quick fixes will add up over time also. Go into your crystal ball and let all of us know.

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Jay

12:45 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

Nickjo, I just have the opposite view. The 'new middle school' is the 'quick fix' that does not solve the problem if you believe the problem is better education. Realestate has quite the ways to go to "return" never mind make people money on their houses and there will be pressure to keep interest rates low.

People that remortgaged 5 years ago have remortgaged since as we have sunk below what was being claimed as the bottom.

Now we find out we can't apply for school building aid as stated, that aid would be much more than any interest rate increase. Since you want the quick fix, I think you should revisit your view of Pelham as our children will be working out of trailers for 10 more years.

wm as it is.

11:45 am on Monday, March 11, 2013

I know windham is the only town in nh that had any population growth but we can't afford to hire all the laid off teachers in the state.enough is enough,windham has another school that needs to be replaced shortly let's look at the whole picture.my child changing schools 5 times is an outrage. if the cost of an addition on center school was twice the cost than building a new two year school.it would still be far more cost effective in a short time.
you people are so good at doing future projections why don't you do one based on salaries, pensions and benefits.
By the way my child has and has had 23 students in her 5th grade center school class all year not 30.

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Danyelle Stuckart

12:59 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

The average size class for 5th grade is 23.3, some classes have more and some have less; it depends on the makeup of the class. (Where did the number 30 come from?) Windham has done everything we can to have kept the numbers as low as we could, which is why we put classes on carts and use non-classroom space. We have run out of non-classroom space, unless we want to use the gym and cafeteria. So, we are going to see class sizes continually increase as we get more students every year, we are out of space to exploit.

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SamIam

1:30 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

Ms. Stuckart - you mentioned in an earlier post - your daughter had 30+ students in her 6th grade spanish class.

So many numbers being thrown around - nobody can keep their stories straight.....:)

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Dennis Senibaldi

9:33 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

Danyelle,
If we have already run out of space, how is it we are adding two additional 3rd grade classes at WCS?

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GrassisGreener

11:53 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

Dennis,

You will really say and do just about anything to get elected won't you? How far did you stretch the truth on your last comment regarding the 2 additional 3rd Grade classes at WCS? How many 5th Grade classes will there be next year? Oh, 2 less. And what's 2 - 2? That equals zero. Zero change in the number of rooms being utilized.

And by the way isn't the recommendation to put 2 more 3rd Grade classes at GBS instead?

If not that, then how many kids will go in each of the 5th Grade classes next year to handle the 3rd Graders? What's that 26? Up from 23.6?

I guess that's the transparency we can expect. You're not sorting trash here...these are kids.

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Dennis Senibaldi

2:16 am on Tuesday, March 12, 2013

Grass,
All this time I though you had all the facts but I guess not on this one. They are not reducing 5th grade classes by two and they are adding two more third grade classes at WCS! Call Kori and ask, it is that simple.

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GrassisGreener

9:08 am on Tuesday, March 12, 2013

@Dennis,

I think you should go back and retake the Reasoning course for the Bachelor's Degree you're working towards. As stated, in order to make that work you EITHER move more to GBS (as is suggested in the Capacity study) or you squeeze the 234 kids in 5th Grade next year into 9 class rooms. Today, the current 5th Grade uses 11 classrooms.

You really do not apply logic to your thinking which is a real issue for me as a candidate for School Board. Your post suggests that we have enough room to add 2 3rd Grade classes but as usual you fail to explain how they make that work.

Further, to say that a decision is already made on where kids will go next year is another load of garbage (which you're very familiar with). We have no idea how many 1st Graders are enrolled yet even though you've reached a conclusion that it will be less than last year. So what if you're right and say 130 1st Graders show up for next year, you don't think the School District will put another 3rd Grade class at GBS vs. increasing the 5th Grade to 26 kids per class.

You are so over your head and it will be a sad day if you've conned the electorate to vote you onto the School Board.

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soc

9:33 am on Tuesday, March 12, 2013

Grass,

Please NO ONE explains anything. You've heard, as have I, there are no bathrooms in the 'phased additions' (false). You know that I'm accurate at what a mess traffic will be on LBR when you collocate WHS and 'proposed middle school'. This will be daily, but also for any 'events'. Oh btw, we are going to cross the street to get from the school to the athletic fields.

So how much logic was used in discounting/discarding options when people think they need portable toilets, "hold it" or form lines like Gillette Stadium or they think they are going to make that quick pickup after the Middle School dance.

Sean Donahue

1:06 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

According to US statistics federal spending for K-12 education has increased from $12.5 billion in 1965 to $72.8 billion in 2008, measured in constant 2008 dollars (http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009020.pdf). Total U.S. education spending in inflation-adjusted dollars has tripled since 1950, meanwhile our standings in global education continue to drop.

As of 2010 China has an average of 38 students per classroom in public schools and 42 students per classroom in private schools, these figures are unchanged from 2000. The average U.S. class size in 2010 was 20, a 9% reduction from 2000 (http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/eag_highlights-2012-25-en). The 2009 PISA study conducted by OECD, reported that fifteen-year-olds in the U.S. ranked 25th among peers from 34 countries on a math test and scored in the middle in science and reading. Who came out on top? China of course!

The question begs to be asked, why, with all the money we spend as a country on education, are we continually losing ground compared to the rest of the world? Is it our facilities? Students per classroom? Have parents given up? Are the teachers just in it for the summers off? The obvious answer to all these questions is NO. Windham has some of the most dedicated teachers around, and the parents are certainly not giving up as shown by the passionate and well organized effort by Windham WINS.

continued in followig post

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Sean Donahue

1:06 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

There are many contributing factors to the national decline in education that could be debated, but the one factor you can’t debate is CLASS SIZE. If China is capable of providing the best education in the world with double the class size of what we have in Windham, one cannot, with a straight face say that we are over capacity.

In conclusion, I think it’s time, we as a community, take the gloves off and start asking the difficult questions of how best to deliver education rather than where to deliver education. We need to put political correctness aside and not be afraid to ruffle a few feathers, even if it means not being the ‘popular kid in class’.

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wm as it is.

1:41 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

how long before we have 12 schools and more staff than students?.
with zoning changes any where from 200 to 400 new homes can be squeezed into windham at .less than 1 child per household taken from the economic peak and the average new england familly stays in their home 25 years what are we going to do until the next generation grows up rent office space..

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wm as it is.

3:30 pm on Monday, March 11, 2013

again as samual clemens once said; there are three types of liars in the world;
a liar
a god dam liar
and statistics
when they start flying in every direction ,duck, get out of the way and come back and play another day. vote no.

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